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Customer Reviews (7)

Bad shipping
I ordered this book for a class on the 11th with 2 day shipping... and on the 20th it has yet to be shipped. As I ordered this from amazon, and not an independent seller, I expected to get it in the time frame estimated, as the book is in stock. If it is not shipped within the next day, I plan to cancel my order.

Fantastic!
The great Seth Benardete has provided an accurate and intriguing translation of this classic masterpiece. The "Ladder of Love" by Bloom is also included, and is as equally important to a fuller understanding of the symposium as a good translation is.
*Note: the ladder of love is a chapter from Bloom's Love and Friendship, so be aware that if you already have this you are mainly buying Benardete's translation. On that note, it is one of the best translations around.

A timeless discourse on desire
Plato's Symposium is a discourse on the nature and origins of love and eroticism.This is done through a lengthy dialogue at the dinner party at the home of Agathon, where he and his guests, including Socrates (his lover), partake in wine and take turns eulogizing Eros, the god of love and desire.Each does his best to praise the god, while Socrates comments on them afterward through speech and dialogue.In the end, the party is joined by the intoxicated Alcibiades, who speaks of Socrates's honorable traits while also confessing his love and desire for him.

Symposiums in Greek society were a chance for men to recline on couches and drink, converse, debate and party with one another.They were usually held to celebrate a young male entering aristocratic society, and normally these youths would attend as the companion of one of the adults with whom we was involved in a pederastic relationship.The arguments and topics presented in the Symposium can be difficult for the average modern reader to comfortably comprehend, as nearly each speech somehow turns inevitably to the subject of, and ultimate praise of, pederasty.This physical and emotional love between a man and a youth is held in high regard in the Symposium's reasoning, often being seen as more pure and more desirable than one between a man and a woman.The latter is more bent on procreation and physical attraction, while, in their eyes, pederasty deals more with souls and the love of that which is alike.It is these assumptions, which arise in each speech, which can make it difficult for one to agree completely with one of the character's arguments. Nevertheless, it is possible to find persuasive elements in each of their various speeches that can reveal valuable insight into the ways and reasons that human beings love and are beloved.

The young Phaedrus is the first to honor Eros.The value of his view lies in his belief that a man who loves is a man who cares, and thus a man who strives to do good and not bring about shame to him or the ones he loves.Pausinias is next to speak, and he is persuasive in distinguishing the two manifestations of Eros, or two types of love: the love of the physical (Pandemus) and the love of the spiritual (Uranian).He then correctly places the spiritual love higher, for those of the other kind "are in love with their bodies and not their souls" and they can be "in love with the stupidest there can be, for they have an eye only to act [sexually] and are unconcerned with whether it is noble or not" (Plato 10).He decrees that one must love both the body and the soul, for if one loves only the body, "as soon as the bloom of the body fades - which is what he was in love with - `he is off and takes wing'" (Plato 13).

The third to speak is Eryximachus, whose speaks rightly of loves impact upon art and beauty.Aristophanes next gives an amusing, although no less romantic, portrayal of primordial balls of flesh rolling around, and being split into two parts, and searching the rest of its life for its other half to finally complete itself.It illustrates the loneliness one feels when without their lover.Agathon then gives an eloquent speech, the highlight of which is Eros's power to bring humans together in happiness.

Lastly, the wise Socrates speaks.At first he uses what has presently been deemed `Socratic dialogue' by asking Agathon a series of questions in order to bring out inconsistencies in his argument.By doing this, he is able manipulate a conversation to his liking, and convince the person he is conversing with of his own opinion by making it seem as though they arrived at that idea themselves.In this instance, Agathon originally said that Eros was by nature good and beautiful, but when examining the nature of love through Socrates' interrogation, he concludes that Eros is neither good nor beautiful.Socrates furthers his explanation by recounting a dialogue he had with a wise woman named Diotima of Mantineia.The genius of this instance is the realization of procreation being a way for an individual to seek immortality, and the need to create, in general, things such as art or great ideas or laws are driven from this need to be remembered.Human beings not only generate but also nurture to further the guarantee that their mark will be made lasting, whether it is a child or an epic.This could certainly account for the passion in humans for fame and/or reproduction, and gives terrific insight into the ultimate purposes of most human actions.(However, Diotima seems to fall short in one part of her argument when she says that man "will never generate in the ugly" for he desires beauty and good too greatly, yet infamy through death and fear has certainly been a motivating factor in many men's actions through their course to fame and remembrance).

In this publication by The University of Chicago Press the reader is given Seth Benardete's beautiful translation along with the Allan Bloom's insightful "Ladder of Love," which offers an analysis of the ancient text (although some background knowledge of the historical Socrates would ensure getting the most out of this essay).Plato's Symposium proves to be a wonderfully philosophical discourse on desire, although some of its ideas, as identified earlier, are justly outdated.Nevertheless, it provides a glimpse into the inner workings of man's heart and the forces that propel him to go on each day.

Decent
I found many of the ideas about love in the Symposium very interesting and the Ladder of Love that followed was also good to read.

best edition available
This is an elegant and accurate translation (much more readable than Benardete's gnomic renditions of Theaetetus / Sophist / Statesman). Benardete's essay is also a joy (it was previously published, but in a rather obscure German edition). Bloom's commentary is a bit of a slog and very rarely surprising. The reviewer below who remarked that "if you already have Love and Friendship and a copy of the Symposium you might feel gyped [sic]" has missed the mark; the prize here is the translation itself. Now if only Chicago had included Blanckenhagen's "Stage and Actor" as well! ... Read more

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Reason allows us to live for something
I read Plato's Republic for a graduate philosophy class.I paid close attention to Plato's thesis of courage in his Republic, which I expound below.I found G. M. A. Grubb's translationto be the best of several I read.

Plato's project in the Republic is to form the "perfect" society."Reason allows us to live for something."Through reason we set goals and organize our lives around achieving goals.Plato argues that the government's duty to citizens is to provide justice, and educate citizens both men and women.The state's social structure stood for justice and was divided into three groups.Rulers- those trained to use reason and posses wisdom.Guardians/ Soldiers have courage/spirit.Artisans have moderation of appetites.Plato's ideal ruler, the "Philosopher King," should be 50 years old with 15 years of government experience and should have studied science and philosophy.The ruler must show a mastery of Arete = excellence vs. akrasia= weakening of will, or no self-control.The ruler should think logically not emotionally.In the Republic to insure excellent people Plato advocated selective breeding of excellent unmarried people who lived in communes, who did not own property.

Plato describes five types of government in the Republic:

1. Aristocracy- Plato considered this the best form of government; aristocracy embodies wisdom of the philosopher king.
2. Timocracy- military government embodies virtues of honor and courage.
3. Oligarchy- rule by a rich elite, their vice is greed, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
4. Democracy- mob rule, and chaos, it represents akrasia people are slaves of their desires and have little self-control.
5. Tyranny- this is the worst form of government.The vice is selfishness, one power crazed person in control.

Plato's purpose in the Republic is not to perfect the character of people as an end but only as a means to an end.Plato's aim has a definite effect on his definition of courage.I find this is especially the case when exploring his ideas on how to educate the Guardians of the city to act courageously.Plato's goal is to match a person's character disposition to a job they are naturally inclined to perform in the city.Once he [Plato] has introduced the city in 369 b-d, he immediately advances the thesis, which is to dominate the rest of the Republic, that the needs of its inhabitants can best be met if each person in it performs that single task, and that single task alone, for which he is naturally suited.

With this view of human nature in mind, in Plato's model society, he divides the citizens into three classes.Rulers from whom the "philosopher king," will be selected, Guardians who are soldiers to protect the state, and the rest of the citizens classified as ArtisansThis division of citizens precipitates a discussion by Plato on the four virtues that these citizens will bring to the state.In the history of philosophy this becomes known as the "four cardinal virtues"; wisdom, courage, moderation, and justice.With this introduction of courage as a virtue, Plato takes another crack at defining courage.What is also important to observe is that he introduces a new element, that of education, in his definition of courage that was absent from his early dialogue Laches.

Plato espouses the idea in the Republic that the Guardians need to possess certain natural qualities; such as strength, speed, and courage.It seems odd that Plato classifies courage as a natural quality possessed by certain people.This automatically presupposes that not all people can practice the virtue of courage.Plato's successor Aristotle, will argue against this notion in his EN.In addition, Plato argues that in order for people to be courageous they must also have an aggressive thumos [passion], which makes both people and animals fearless and determined.Plato fears that the Guardians could be susceptible to using their passion of aggressiveness against there own people.Therefore, he counsels that the Guardians who naturally possess aggressiveness have to also naturally possess the opposite characteristic of gentleness as well, so that their aggressiveness will only be used against the enemy and not their own citizenry.

This dialogue is significant in that it helps to flesh out Plato's notion of what ultimately makes a person courageous.First, Plato argues that the goal of education, which he compares to a sheepdog, is to watch over the Guardians; thus, with the proper education he believes the proper balance between exciting their aggressiveness and subduing it in the Guardians can be achieved.Second, Plato believes that if aggressiveness is properly excited by physical training, then the Guardian will be courageous.If overly excited they will be like a wild beast devoid of grace and will become ignorant.Finally, Plato argues in his education section of the Republic, that to counter the possibility of a Guardian developing an over excited passion of aggressiveness, it is necessary to teach the Guardians literature and music during the same time they undergo physical training.

Thus, Plato hopes this balanced approach to educating the Guardians will then lead to courage being a controlled and calm act of endurance in battle, instead of a foolhardy lust for blood letting and an emotional reaction to war.Not only does Plato spend a significant amount of time advocating for the tools necessary to subdue the passions of the Guardians in book three of the Republic, but another important point in Plato's philosophy to consider is that since he believes that a Guardian's aggressiveness is influenced by literature he is very concerned by what type of literature is taught to them as well.Plato is very concerned that the archetypical heroic warrior Achilles, as depicted in Homer's epic poem the Iliad along with those depicted in Greek tragedies performed on stage, are bad examples for the Guardians to emulate.Consequently, Plato advises that heroes of Greek literature should be depicted as thoughtfully courageous and in control of their anger and physically resilient warriors.Thus, Plato seems to be using the term andreia [courage] to cover (at the least) both courage proper, which can only exist in some kind of unity with the other virtues, and raw mettle or aggressiveness, which can exist in conjunction with various vices.Plato in book four of the Republic does move on from his study of thumos as the prime motivating force to act courageously, to actually defining the virtue of courage.Plato defines courage as a person's ability to subdue their aggressiveness by the orders of their reason in regards to what they should be fearful of regardless of their own feelings of pain or pleasure.Plato's expounded definition of the virtue of courage is that a courageous act is an amalgamation of a person's natural passion of aggressiveness and properly educated rational beliefs over what is worthy regarding the possibility of losing their life or limb over.

Incredible
This is the translation everyone should read. It's extremely easy to read and it turns theotherwise difficult dialogue in to a type of readable story line that keeps you interested in the mind blowing issues being discussed only a couple thousand years ago. This version definitely brings Plato's Republic back to the present day.
As for the book it self, it's just unbelievable. In the fact that it was written over a thousand years ago.And also because so much has changed since then, but the issues are all things we still contemplate today. This book will change the way you think if you let it. It has been thousands ofyears and still few works of present day writers can rival it. Just incredible. ... Read more

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Plato stands as the fount of our philosophical tradition, being the first Western thinker to produce a body of writing that touches upon a wide range of topics still discussed by philosophers today.In a sense he invented philosophy as a distinct subject, for although many of these topics were discussed by his intellectual predecessors and contemporaries, he was the first to bring them together by giving them a unitary treatment. This volume contains fourteen new essays discussing Plato's views about knowledge, reality, mathematics, politics, ethics, love, poetry, and religion. There are also analyses of the intellectual and social background of his thought, the development of his philosophy throughout his career, the range of alternative approaches to his work, and the stylometry of his writing. ... Read more

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Very Good
This is a very good overview of Plato's philosophy. I would recommend this volume for those that want to learn of his philosophy without reading that acual works.

(no title)
I cannot recommend this volume highly enough. It's a collection of essays, all (bar one) especially written for this volume, each of them authored by a leading scholar on the respective dialogue or topic. Especially the pieces by Frede and Fine constitute path-breaking, durable contributions to Plato scholarship; each of them would merit the purchase by itself. Between them, Frede and Fine also introduce the reader to two rather different approaches to interpreting Plato, and at once present these approaches at their very best.

Some essays are naturally harder than others, ranging from the instantly accessible to the rather technical. This is as it should be: a reader's companion to Plato's dialogues which themselves vary from the easy to the 'forbidding'. And a book that won't become redundant as your own competence with the dialogues grows (who ever said it won't?).

To conclude: these pieces range from the good to the outstanding, none of them is harder than it should be, and they display considerable diversity in methodology.

PS People interested in the 'non-doctrinal' approach to reading Plato may profitably consult Ferrari's piece at http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/2000/2000-11-10.html, and the "Introduction" (pt.III-IV) in John Cooper, "Plato: Complete Works" (Hackett 1997).

Your time and money are better spent elsewhere
Plato is perhaps the most approachable of the major philosophers. His work is largely presented in short dialogues. Their brevity allow them to be read in a single sitting, and their characterizations, humor, and stories engage even the reader new to philosophy.

Given this, it may surprise those unfamiliar with Plato to learn that the interpretation of him has always been the subject of hot dispute - perhaps only Nietzsche among philosophers has inspired more controversy.

Why is this? Why is Plato so easy to read and yet so difficult?

Five problems are worth calling out:

(1) Dramatic presentation: All of Plato's published works are presented as dialogues between characters - Plato himself is never a character. Thus, any interpretation must have some mapping (implicit or explicit) between the characters' views and Plato's views, as well as how the dramatic structure (setting, characters, story) as a whole presents Plato's views.

(2) Irony: The main speaker in most of Plato's dialogues is Socrates, a character who often speaks ironically. Other characters can be read as sometimes being ironical as well (such as The Athenian in the dialogue "Laws"). Any interpretation must determine when a character is speaking ironically and when seriously.

(3) Stories/Myths: Characters in Plato's dialogues often tell stories whose subject matter is mythological - they concern Gods and Goddesses, the afterlife,and other subject matter beyond ordinary human experience. Any interpretation that deals with them must determine how they are to be read.

(4) The Platonic Lie: In "The Republic", Plato endorses (or seems to endorse) lying as a means of instilling beneficial beliefs in audiences that are unable to acquire philosophical knowledge. A beneficial belief is one that is not true in its substance, but which, if believed, will tend to the same end as would the corresponding knowledge. If we accept that this is Plato's view, then interpretations must consider whether views expressed in the dialogues are themselves Platonic Lies, and not real representations of Plato's thought.

(5) Historical Background: Plato lived in a time and place different from our own, whose language, customs, intellectual background, and attitudes are not ours. This is a much bigger problem than just unfamiliar names - it is the unconscious attitudes we absorb from our culture (and he from his) of which we are not necessarily even consciously aware. Different interpreters do not read these influences the same way (there is no book we can all go to called "How We Thought About Things", authored by "The Ancient Greeks").

With regard to these issues, the dominant view in "A Cambridge Companion to Plato" is something I would call Platonic Fundamentalism: "Socrates says what Plato means, and he means what he says" (this is after the Christian Fundamentalist credo: "The Bible says what it means and it means what it says").

A difficulty with this view is that it leaves Plato contradicting himself an awful lot. The general solution presented here is the evolving-Plato theory - that the dialogues were written over a long period of time and that the contradictions represent real changes in Plato's views. The collection thus abounds in references to Plato's "early dialogues" or "middle dialogues" or "late dialogues".

Now, there are certainly Plato scholars, past and present, who do not accept this particular interpretive framework, but their views, if raised at all,are raised only so that they may be dismissed (sometimes in the same sentence). Those looking for substantial engagement on the problems of Platonic interpretation must look elsewhere.

So, given that the book does not aim to present the scholarly debate on interpreting Plato, it is fair to ask: what does it aim to do? This is an excellent question, but I could not find the answer to it in the book itself.

If it were for the beginning reader, I would think it would focus on the order of reading, and on prepping the reader with background info for each dialogue so as to make reading it more rewarding. But it doesn't do anything like that.

If it were for the intermediate reader, I would think it would focus on illuminating doubtful passages or drawing connecting webs across disparate ones. But it doesn't do that either.

If it were for the advanced reader, I would think it would focus on the debates in the secondary literature, and that it would be used by peers to address peers on controversies. But it doesn't do that either.

So, when it comes to the ultimate question of whether I should recommend the book or not, I just can't think of anyone to whom I would recommend it.

Finally, to take another tack at how worthwhile a book is: the basic challenge any work of secondary literature must face is whether it is more profitable to read it, or to give the primary literature another reading instead.

The only work in the collection that I would say clearly passes that test is Constance Meinwald's essay on "Parmenides" (for those who don't know, "Parmenides" is by far the most formidable work in the Platonic corpus - the first half works to demolish the theory of Forms that we might otherwise hold to be Plato's view, and the second half defies the ability of most readers to make any sense of at all). Even here, however, if you want to read Meinwald's theories on "Parmenides" (and they are worth reading), you would do better to get her book "Plato's Parmenides" than to read the essay excerpted from that book included here.

A Very Good Introduction to Plato
The Cambridge Companion to Plato is an extrememly good primer of Plato's philosophy. The book begins with a complete overview of Plato's philosophy and how it progressed through time. This overview is particularly helpful for those who have never studied Plato before and essential for those who use this book, as I did, as their first exposure to the study of philosophy.

Like all books in the Cambridge series, the Companion to Plato consists of a number of essays written by preminent scholars. These essays explain and evaluate various aspects of Plato's philosophy, from "the defense of justice in Plato's Republic" to "mathematical method and philosophical truth."

Like any philosophy textbook, The Cambridge Companion to Plato can, at times, be dense. I won't recommend it for everbody; a hearty interest in learning philosophy is definately required. However, I've found it to be one of the finest introductions to Plato in his philosophy. It provides a good foundation for actual reading of Plato's texts, which is the next logical step beyond this book. It is also perfect for those who wish to gain a working understanding of Plato's view of the world but, like me, simply do not have the patience to garner it from Plato's own work.

A comprehensive introduction to Plato
This collection of essays written by a host of outstanding scholars of ancient philosophy in this generation may well serve as a comprehensive and dense guideline to the philosophy of Plato and the contemporary viewpointsconcerning the arguments presented by Plato. I am especially impressed bythe excellent introduction written by the editor of this book, RichardKraut. It is so well-organized, sharply presented and teemed with usefulmaterials that I find it to be the best short introduction on Plato I everread. And the structure of the whole book is also well balanced that theessays of which it is composed nearly touch every controverisal problemsconcerning Plato's philosophy and that those problems are all more or lesstreated in a appreciable way. ... Read more

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The Laws of Plato, written by legendary author Plato is widely considered to be one of the greatest classic and historical texts of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, The Laws of Plato is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books International and beautifully produced, The Laws of Plato would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

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Laying down the law...
When one thinks of Plato and his ideas of politics, one naturally gravitates toward his best-known work, the Republic. In that book, Plato set up the ideal city-state, with classes born and bred to specific functions and roles in society, and a sense of philosophical outlook consistent across the board. However, such a society was unlikely to be brought out, in Plato's time and, as it turned out, in any other.

Plato tried at different times to persuade rulers to become his envisioned philosopher-king; the last attempt was with a tyrant of Syracuse, who in the end imprisoned Plato rather than following his directions. Plato wrote this work, 'The Laws', as the last of his dialogues. Its difference from the Republic is immediately apparent in the absence of Socrates as a character - Plato at the end of his life has finally taken to working in his own right and not through a proxy.

Just looking at the contents will show the breadth of this work - it involves practically every aspect of civil society: legislative bodies (and Plato has some scathing commentaries on some that he has known); education and its proper role and method (including even drinking parties as part of the educational process); ideas of monarchy, democracy, and the balance of power (some American constitutional ideas were generated from a reading (and occasional misreading) of this work); civil administration; arts and sciences; military and sports training; sexual conduct; economics; criminal law, torts, and judicial process; religion and theology; civil law, property and family law; Plato even argues for the need of a 'nocturnal council', one that delves not only into the practical aspects of the law, but also their philosophical bases.

According to translator and editor Trevor Saunders, 'The reader of the Republic who picks up the Laws is likely to have difficulty in believing that the same person wrote both.' Saunders speculates that Plato in his older years changed from optimism to pessimism, from idealism to realism, but that this is not all there is to the assumption, because in actual fact the transition from the Republic to the Laws involves transitioning unattainable ideals to attainable realities.

Plato describes the construction of a utopian society in great detail, down to the number of citizens permitted to live in the city (5040) and the length of time foreigners might reside in the city (20 years). This shows that Plato considers politics to be an exact science (indeed, despite the inclusion of the 'nocturnal council', he did see his system of laws being essentially unalterable through history). Plato is not averse to the use of force and coercion to set up and maintain the utopian society. Finally, Plato sees a self-contained kind of society that is likely to become xenophobic to the extreme, with less tolerance toward its own citizens than toward those foreigners permitted to live and work in the city. Indeed, for the virtuous citizens to be free to pursue their virtue, the majority of the manual work and crafts must be done by a worker class composed of slaves or immigrant workers, or both.

Plato's Laws suffer from much greater criticism in the modern world than the Republic, in part because it is a more 'realistic' work, with a reality that no longer applies. However, many of his insights are worthwhile, and the overall structure of his society reflected in the Laws is worth discussion as much as is that of the Republic. One of the problems with this work vis-a-vis the Republic is its length (the Laws is considerable longer); another problem is that it lacks the dramatic reading possible from the Republic, rather the difference between a political debate and a legal seminar. Still, it is an important work, showing how Plato's thought had shifted in his lifetime.

A Useful Corrective to a Distorted View of Plato
Plato's "Republic" is used most often in college courses to illustrate Plato's thoughts on politics, but it does not seem to contain a serious political program.The characters in the "Republic" are mostly young men not yet entrusted with political responsibility who are, nevertheless, concerned with justice and how a city would have to be composed in order to be fully just.That such a city could never, in fact, come about becomes less important than the questions of justice and soul that the discussion raises.Obviously (and by Plato's intention) the "Republic" does not present a practical political program.Students relying on this dialogue alone to get a sense of Plato's thoughts on the best regime may be led astray, especially if they are guided by a bad teacher (of which there are many in the universities).The best corrective to this is to read Pangle's translation of Plato's "Laws".In this dialogue an Athenian Stranger discusses various proposed laws with a Cretan who is shortly to assist in the founding of the new colony of Magnesia.The laws and regulations proposed by the Stranger are concessions to the way men are, rather than idealistic portraits of how they should be.The rule of philosopher-kings is not proposed, and the fact that all three interlocutors come from cities that at one time or another were at war with one another introduces a note of distrust and seriousness that is missing in the more playful "Republic"; this seriousness befits the discussion's more practical nature.Pangle's translation is literal and trustworthy where other translations take liberties with Plato's terminology, while the notes ameliorate the limitations of the translation form. If you are unsatisfied with this, prepare to learn the Greek since a better translation is not likely to be forthcoming. If Pangle's Interpretive Essay leaves a bad taste in your mout, feel free to read "The Argument and the Action of Plato's Laws" by Leo Strauss.My impression, however, is that Pangle's essay is more appropriate for readers who may find the unfamiliar "Laws" more, well, unfamiliar than, say, the "Republic".No one can deny that the "Laws" is more complex than the "Republic" and builds on many of that dialogue's insights,coming as it does at the end of Plato's career.To my mind, however, it is as indispensable as the "Republic" and teachers do their students a great disservice by not assigning the "Laws" more often.In conclusion, I highly recommend this dialogue and translation--accept no substitutes.

Where's the Philosophy?
This is a very flawed book. The translation suffices; however, the Interpretive essay is horribly flawed. Pangle bases his essay with direct reference to 'The Aplopgy' a profoundly exoteric work that does not shedsufficent insight into Socrates' view of philosophy. Even worse, Panglestates that 'The Laws' is what Socrates would have done if he had the timeand oppurtunity to be a legislater. Garbage. There is no support for thiswild asserion. Moreover, Plato himself took great pains to not includeSocrates in 'The Laws', for his name never appears in the text. Yes, thereare brilliant men who think The Athenian Stranger is Socrates (Leo Straussand Aristotle) but Pangle just takes their word for it, he cannot argue hisown case, a very unphilosophic thing to do, and bulldoses his way into hisessay using Socrates name as a substitute for The Athenian Stranger. Ifound this, personally, quite apalling. There must be a deeper reason whyPlato took such care in drafting his dialogues. Pardon my snotiness here,but I think Pangle is just imatating his Cornell professor AllanBloom whowrote a truly philosophic masterpiece in 1968 with his translation of 'TheRepublc', why Pangle, at such a young age took on such a deeply complicateddialogue is beyond me, Leo Strauss waited until he was in his sixtiesbefore he published anything on 'The Laws'. Think how Book X of 'TheRepublic' denigrates imitation. Pangle's entire Interpretive Essay shouldbe rewritten- it's unphilosophical. He should return to 'The Republic' andmake an effort at understanding how each book relates to one another andespecially how Plato himself thought they related. Such an endevour wouldbe worthy of the name schlorship, philosophy, and Allan Bloom.

Great Bookon the politics
The Laws by Plato is one of the best book on the political science. Here are some reasons why I think the Laws is the best book of the politics. First, This book extensively and thoroughly covers every aspects of the society such as education, laws, politics, justice, and religion. Unlike the Republic, the Laws has some pratical values in it. In other word, every political idea in this book is applicable to the Greek-States at the Hellinic period. ... Read more

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Classic Writing at an Excellent Price
What can I say? Six Dialogues of the master Plato in one very inexpensive edition. This is an excellent bargain. ... Read more

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Rich in drama and humor, this volume of seven dialogues includes the controversial Ion, a debate on poetic inspiration; Laches, in which Socrates seeks to define bravery; and Euthydemus, which considers the relationship between philosophy and politics. Together, these dialogues provide a definitive portrait of the real Socrates and raise issues still keenly debated by philosophers, forming an incisive overview of Plato’s philosophy.

As the father of Western philosophy, who transformed Greek thought with his questioning insights into life and ethics, Socrates was a powerful inspiration—and major irritant—to the Athenians of his day. After his trial and execution on charges of heresy and the corruption of young minds, his greatest pupil, Plato, wrote these early dialogues as an act of homage. ... Read more

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Considered to be one of the three greatest philosophical tomes of all time, The Republic is Plato's account and interpretation of Socrates's ideas about life, meaning, and the just society. This text has provoked and shaped thought for thousands of years and is as applicable now as it ever was. ... Read more

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BUY IT NOW!!
I was having trouble interpreting Plato's The Republic, this book has been tremendously helpful. If you are having the same problem then get this book now!!

Excellent guide, learned a lot
I found this to be a clear, concise, and well written quide to understanding this venerable work. The author covers many topics, from the social and historical context of the work to the more abstract philosophical ideas. It helped me to better appreciate this important work and I learned a lot that was valuable and even useful.

I had a few comments myself to make. There might now be much I can add in a scholarly vein to what people have already said about Plato. But I thought I would make a few personal observations from the standpoint of a somewhat philosophically literate, 21st century man who is reading such an august classic in middle age.

I came to this book with more of a background in modern epistemology and the philosophy of science than in classical philosophy. So political philosophy isn't exactly my strong suit, but nevertheless I found the book interesting reading in a way I hadn't really thought of before.

Actually, I had read portions of this book 20 years ago when I was a young student first studying philosophy, and I have to say, there is something to be said for having a more mature outlook in approaching such a venerable work. At the time I thought political philosophy pretty dull stuff, and besides, I felt there was no real way to answer any of the important political questions that get debated here, despite the easy way Socrates disposes of everybody else's half-baked opinions and theories.

The fact is, if you move ahead 2400 years and read something like Karl Popper's "The Open Society and Its Enemies," an advanced modern work, you can see how much, or how little, political philosophy has progressed in the last 24 centuries.

Well, that may be true, but at least with this book you know where it basically all started. The best way to decide this issue is to read the book and decide for yourself.

Although entitled "The Republic," this society isn't like any republic you've probably ever read about. Plato proposes an ant- like communism where there is no private ownership of property, philosophers are kings, kings are philosophers, people cultivate physical, moral, and ethical qualities, and the idea of the good takes the place of political and social virtues.

Another odd facet is that the bravest citizens are permitted more wives than those less brave in battle. And then there is the infamous proposition that all poets and artists are to be banished since they are harmful purveyors of false illusions.

I find the Socratic method as a way of moving along the dialogue between the participants sort of interesting, and it is certainly an effective device. However, none of these people, even the famous Sophist Thrasymachus, are really Socrates' intellectual equal, so he really doesn't have much competition here.

(Cheap shot from the "Peanut Gallery"--not to digress too much, here, but if Socrates was supposed to be so wise, how come he married such a shrewish woman for a wife, Xantippe? They joked about how funny and incongruous that was even in Socrates's day).

If ancient Athens disproportionately had so many towering intellects, relative to its small population (about 20,000 people, most of whom were slaves anyway), you'd think they would show up in Plato's dialogues more. But all we seem to get are second- raters who are really no match for the clever Socrates. Of course, since the dialogues we have were written down by Socrates' most famous student, Plato, perhaps the cards were stacked a little in his teacher's favor.

Yet I would say this is still a great book. Classical scholars say there are more perfect, less flawed dialogues than Plato's Republic, but none that are as profound, wide-ranging, and as influential and important for later philosophy. As someone once wrote, in a sense the entire history of western philosophy "consists of nothing but footnotes to Plato." After finally reading it, I can see why there is so much truth to that statement.

I also had a brief comment to make on Plato's theory of justice.

Early on in the book there is the famous exchange between Socrates and the Sophist, Thrasymachus. Socrates asks him for his definition of Justice, and Thasymachus responds that "Justice is the interest of the stronger."

Socrates then uses his famous eponymous method to seemingly demolish the Sophist's position, and then presents his own view instead.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Thrasymachus here, if only on practical and historical grounds. Justice usually is the interest of the stronger. Perhaps this is not what Justice should be in human and social terms, but that's the reality.

Socrates' definition is a nice ideal, but rarely works out that way in practice. If one thinks of Thrasymachus' definition as simply pragmatic and realistic, and Socrates' definition as being the ideal that a true republic (or whatever society) should strive for, then I think this is a more accurate view of the situation. Socrates makes Thrasymachus' idea appear invalid, but in fact, his idea is more accurate in terms of how things actually work out in most parts of the world (and even in the US) than is Socrates' idea.

Not that this is right or even desirable, it's just the way things are.

A MUST HAVE!The only way to trudge through the Republic!
For college students, this book is a godsend.It lays out in common English basically everything that Plato and Socrates say in The Republic.Some of the most famous things from The Republic, including the Noble Lie,the Ship of State, and the Allegory of the Cave are put into layman'sterms, making those papers and homework questions relatively easy to write. If you are a student, or are reading The Republic for fun, you have tohave this book. ... Read more

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The third edition of The Trial and Death of Socrates presents G. M. A. Grube's distinguished translations, as revised by John Cooper for Plato, Complete Works. A number of new or expanded footnotes are also included along with a Select Bibliography. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (15)

GARBAGE
This book was listed as "LIKE NEW."It is garbage.....there is writing all over it. The back cover is bent, pages are ripped and it there is so much writing you can barely read it with all the red.

Useful, got the Job done
This was the book necessary for my introduction to political philosophy @ Harvard. My professor said we needed it for the next week and thanks to the next day shipping guarante I received it the next day mid afternoon. This book was only useful to us for Plato's "The Apology" but I'm sure to keep this on my shelf and read the rest od Socrates's trial. Overall it's worth the 6 dollars it's just like buying a big Mac, but you get to enjoy this one longer.

One of the Greatest Books Ever
This magnificent compilation has four Plato writings:"Euthyphro," "Apology," "Crito," and "Phaedo." Though apparently early works and not as complex or philosophically influential as later ones, they are immensely important in portraying Socrates' trial and death. They are our clearest picture of the historical Socrates and would be invaluable for this alone. Indeed, I have read hundreds - perhaps thousands - of books, and this is one of my ten or so favorites, mostly because of how moving the depiction of the great man's last days is. The story of Socrates' Apology and last moments is part of world literature's very fabric, an immortal part of Western cultural heritage. Anyone who wants to learn about Socrates should start here. However, the works have great value even aside from this; a few have indeed questioned their historical veracity. This does not affect their philosophical, literary, and political worth, which is of the highest, making the book doubly essential.

"Euthyphro" is the least important work philosophically and probably not meant as historical, but it is still worthwhile. It examines the important "What is piety?" question and, like many Platonic dialogues, does not have anything like a definite conclusion. Some find this aspect frustrating, and it is certainly beguiling, but those who have experience with it come to love it. Like Socrates, Plato is after all too intelligent to give hard and fast answers; in all likelihood, he knows there are not any. What he does is far more important - lead us to think for ourselves and come to our own conclusions if we can. "Euthyphro" is a good, if relatively minor, example. It also introduces what philosophers call the Euthyphro Problem; here it is "Are good things good because they are loved by the gods, or are they loved by the gods because they are good?," but it has been restated in innumerable forms. This is in some ways an unrepresentative dialogue and thus an unfortunate one to begin the book, because it seems to prove the stereotype that philosophy obsesses over inane, probably unanswerable questions of no practical use. The Euthyphro Problem seems truly asinine as given - or, in our post-postmodern world, simply irrelevant. However, we can begin to see its importance when we replace "good" and "loved by the gods" with whatever seems most pressing. Such is after all the kind of thing Plato wanted; we are not supposed to read in narrow literal terms but use him as a starting point for our path to wisdom. This is an instructive example of how Plato has been immensely influential far beyond his apparent significance.

"Apology" is Plato's least philosophical and most unrepresentative work but arguably his most important and is among many readers' favorites, including mine. The book's title is misleading in that this is prose rather than dialogue; it purports to be Socrates' self-defense at his trial. It is historically priceless if so, as it gives his last public statements and some background about his life and the lead up to the trial. Even if not, it is of immense worth as a passionate, sound defense of individualism and free speech; its timeless evocation of these all-important concepts is forever associated with Socrates and the main reason he has been immortalized. The work also piercingly examines the often vast law/conscience gap and is thus an early higher law document. Finally, it is a sort of mini-dialogue in itself touching on and in several ways tying up classic Socrates/Plato themes like the nature of piety and goodness, responsibility toward the gods and the state, interpersonal relations, and life vs. death issues. It sums up Socrates and perhaps Plato better than any other work.

"Crito" is a possibly partly historical account of the title character visiting Socrates in jail to inform him that he is able to escape via bribe; Socrates famously says that he accepts his sentence and argues down contrary pleas. This gives incredible potential insight into Socrates, in many ways telling us more about his character and thought than a full biography ever could. Again, though, it transcends this philosophically and otherwise and is particularly relevant politically. It also examines the law/conscience gap and gives further background on Socrates but is notable above all as a very early example of the social contract theory of government. This is an astonishing example of how advanced Plato was, as the theory is generally considered to have been founded by Thomas Hobbes nearly a millennium later. Even more amazingly, it is put forth more clearly and persuasively here than perhaps anywhere else, making the dialogue essential for anyone interested in political theory.

"Phaedo" ostensibly details Socrates' last moments, including his last look at his wife and child, his last dialogue, his last words to friends, and his actual death. A large part of Socrates' image comes from this, and its potential historical value is inconceivable, though its historicity can easily be doubted since the work itself strongly suggests that Plato was not there. Even so, it is likely accurate in regard to the things that really matter and certainly a fine account of how it very well could have been. It is extremely moving; shot through with pathos, it is one of the most affecting things I have ever read. One can surely not read it without being overcome by emotion; I can hardly even think of it without misty eyes. Anyone who respects and admires this central Western civilization figure will be profoundly touched; his famous last words seem comic out of context but are very much otherwise here, telling us much about Socrates and moving us yet further. This would be one of the greatest works of all-time if it had no other aspect, but it is also a fine dialogue appropriately dealing mostly with death. Plato examines perennial questions like the soul's immortality and metempsychosis very thoroughly and thought-provokingly, and the conclusion - unsurprisingly, given the circumstances - has uncharacteristic certainty. It may not convince our cynical, empiricist, science-loving, twentieth century-surviving age, but the argument is certainly well-made and in many ways admirable. The dialogue touches on other important subjects also and is generally seen as the culmination of Plato's early, Socrates-centered thought.

It is important to realize that these four works were not originally published together, but the trial and death connection means they are often collected. There are many such editions, but this is the least expensive and probably the most widely available, making it ideal for most; it also has extra value in that many versions lack "Euthyphro."

The ever-important translation issue must also be kept in mind. It goes without saying that anyone who cares about intellectual issues, especially applied ones, must know Plato, as should anyone who wants to be even basically well-read. However, this is far easier said than done for most; he is so different from what now passes for literature, to say nothing of pop culture, that he is virtually inaccessible to general readers. Yet the importance of persevering cannot be overemphasized; the payoff is well worth the effort. As nearly always in such cases, reading him becomes far easier after the initial difficulty; no attentive reader will ever think Plato easy reading, but he is utterly absorbing once we get used to his style. He has a near-poetic beauty that all agree has never even been remotely approached in philosophy, and such mesmerizing prose is rare in any genre. His dialogues are an incredible form at once intellectually and aesthetically pleasing - an inspired combination that has perhaps never been bettered; many have appropriated it, but none have matched it. All this means that picking the right translation is probably more important with Plato than any other writer. For the average reader, the more recent, the better is generally true, though older translations like Jowett's and Rouse's are still very accessible. The important thing is to read Plato in some form, and those who happen on a translation that does not work for them should keep trying until their mind opens in a truly new way - and once done, it will never close again.

The Trial and Death of Socrates (3rd Edition) by Plato, John M. Cooper
This purchase saved me a lot of money compared to the price in the campus bookstore.

Expensive
Of the eight books I bought, it was the most expensive (cost per page) for all that I received. Although it was in great condition, so were some of the others. ... Read more

Product Description
This is a completely new translation of one of the great works of Western political thought.In addition to Tom Griffith's vivid, dignified and accurate rendition of Plato's text, this edition is suitable for students at all levels. It contains an introduction that assesses the cultural background to the Republic, its place within political philosophy, and its general argument; succinct notes in the text; an analytical summary of content; a full glossary of proper names; a chronology of important events; and a guide to further reading. ... Read more

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Very happy customer
Thank you so much for the quick delivery of this book. It was in excellent condition.

The ultimate Socratic dialogue?
"The Republic" is Plato's classical utopia, and perhaps one of the most controversial political texts ever written. It's so absurd that some people deny that Plato really meant it! Strange Aristotle never noticed. And yet, those who believe that "The Republic" shouldn't be taken literally probably have a point. Plato himself didn't take "The Republic" absolutely literally either.

"The Republic" describes a hierarchical caste society ruled by a militarized, collectivist elite. The elite itself is divided into different segments, the highest echelon being that of the philosopher-kings, enlightened thinkers who contemplate the heavenly world of Platonic forms, and precisely for that reason are fit to rule society as well. Below the philosopher-kings stand the Guardians, essentially the military caste. Famously, both the philosophers and Guardians live under conditions of total communism. They own no private property, are reared together, and hence don't know their parents or siblings. Strictly speaking, there are philosopher-queens as well, and also female soldiers, since the elite has gender equality (a point that has puzzled modern feminists). Below the elite groups stand merchants, artisans and farmers, but no slaves. The castes are (almost) hereditary, eugenics are used to ensure the fitness of the elite groups, and the population is induced to believe in fantastic, religious myths. The myths are noble lies welding this strange society together. Did I leave something out? Oh, and the poets are banished from the city! In other words, the ideal society described in "The Republic" looks like a curious blend of Sparta, Egypt and India (at least the two former societies would have been known to Plato).

So where do we go from here? The most moderate interpretation is that although Plato did regard "The Republic" as the best society, he didn't really believe that such a society was possible. It was a deliberate utopia. This raises a lot ofintriguing questions, such as how Plato imagined the best *possible* society to look like, or what function "The Republic" was supposed to have. The first question is to some extent answered in "The Laws" and the Seventh Epistle, where Plato advocates a mixed constitution. What the answer to the second question might be, I honestly don't know. Perhaps nobody does. A wild guess: the point of Plato's utopia was to explore certain ideas without hindrance, throw certain concepts into as sharp relief as possible, in other words, do exactly what modern utopian novels do, in contrast to political utopias meant to be taken seriously.

I think that Plato clearly saw both the dilemma of democracy, and the dilemmas of tyranny and oligarchy, what we would simply call "dictatorship". Plato saw his teacher Socrates being persecuted by the regime of the Thirty Tyrants, but he also saw him being executed by the demos. The twin dilemmas of both dictatorship and democracy were starkly visible in the life of Socrates. The perennial problem of democracy is: what happens if the people vote the wrong way? (In Athens, the problem was even more pronounced, since many positions were filled by lot!) The perennial problem of dictatorship: how do we stop a ruler from becoming a tyrant, if the people can't even vote? Plato's solution to the problem was to balance the demos and the elite by a mixed constitution. In "The Laws" he took Sparta and the Cretan city-states as his concrete models, but he might just as well have harkened back to the days of Solon, or made use of the systems in Carthage or Republican Rome.

Plato's concrete solutions aren't ours, of course. Even the Athenian democracy he criticized was a far cry from our modern conceptions of democracy. From our vantage point, a mixed constitution on a Spartan or Cretan model actually looks even worse than the Athenian system. Note also the irony that "The Laws" lack the "socialist" and "feminist" traits of the Platonic utopia. Also, there is slavery in Magnesia, the name given by Plato to his realistic Cretan city-state, while there doesn't seem to be any slaves in "The Republic". And yet, despite the obvious differences between Plato's time and ours, the dilemma is still with us! Modern democracies attempt to solve it by combining universal suffrage with a division of powers, by a federal structure, or by a strong constitution guaranteeing basic human rights, a constitution that cannot be changed, at least not by a simple majority. Our methods may be different from the Platonic ones, but we are still trying to solve the same dilemma as he experienced in the aftermath of the Peloponessian War.

It could further be argued that no clever constitutional solution is possible in the long run, if the citizens loose their sense of civic duty. And it further seems that civic duty is possible only in a relatively small state, without too large income or property differentials between the citizens. Indeed, even Plato's moderate city-state in "The Laws" insists on the citizens having roughly equal amounts of landed property, property that can be neither bought nor sold.Of course, our concept of citizenship is much broader than the Platonic one: women and even resident aliens are citizens, and there are no slaves. Yet, Plato's general point seems to be correct.

So far, I have only touched on those points in "The Republic" and "The Laws" that could be creatively developed without offending our modern sensibilities too much.But, of course, "The Republic" also deals with other issues, more disturbing ones to our liberal ears. Are people really born equal? Are there innate differences between individuals? Is it always permissible for the rulers to tell the truth? Do societies need myths and noble lies? Ironically, Plato also asked questions that should disturb some conservatives: Given that innate differences are individual rather than sex-related, does this mean that the sexes are equal? And what's so good about private property and foreign trade anyway?

Perhaps that's the main function played by "The Republic". It's a work of provocation, a work meant to shock us into boldly questioning our preconceptions, a work that's the very opposite of a noble lie. Pace Popper, "The Republic" might actually be Plato's most Socratic work!

[This isn't really a review of this particular edition, but a general comment on Plato's dialogue, and its relation to some other works, but placing it here felt like the most natural option.]

Understand the strengths and weaknesses of the Griffith translation
This version of the Republic (translated by Tom Griffith) is pleasant and readable; it definitely has its moments and would probably be a good way to first encounter the dialogue. But do not use it for serious study, since the translation can be quite free and sometimes confusing. For instance, the word usually translated as "advantageous" (sumpheron) in Thrasymachus's argument is rendered as "good for." This is a nice attempt to capture the meaning in a natural way - but I personally wouldn't play around with the word "good" in a translation of the Republic. ... Read more

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Plato's Phaedo, written by legendary author Plato, is widely considered to be one of the greatest classic texts of all time. This great classic will surely attract a whole new generation of readers. For many, Plato's Phaedo is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading timeless pieces of classic literature, this gem by Plato is highly recommended. Published by Classic Books International and beautifully produced, Plato's Phaedo would make an ideal gift and it should be a part of everyone's personal library. ... Read more

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An incredibly insightful introduction.
I have no desire to critique Plato or to give a synopsis of his Phaedo.What drew me to this review is actually the translators' introduction.Brann, Kalkavage and Salem do, what I think, is an excellent job at breaking down the imagery and themes of the piece while adding a tremendous amount of background.If this were my first encounter with Plato or Greek thought in general, I would find the introduction to be infinitely valuable.For example, the translators point out that Socrates' execution is being postponed due to a celebration.As it goes, each year the Athenians, in accordance to their vow to Apollo, send an emissary to Delos.Before they return, the city must keep itself pure and not put anyone to death.This is to commemorate Theseus' recovery of fourteen young Athenians from the Minotaur of Crete.Now in the Phaedo, Socrates is Theseus, the fourteen present are the same from the Minotaur's labyrinth and the Minotaur represents death itself.Personally, I found that little bit of information both charming and useful.The introduction is jam-packed full of such goodies that will help the reader gain a deeper understanding of this piece than if he or she were to just read it alone.

Superb Translation of One of the Most Important Texts
To my mind, this translation surpasses all others with which I am familiar.The translation (1) has a flowing literary style that does justice to the rich feel of reading Plato's own prose, (2) is remarkably precise in its reflecting of the original language, with the result that, when one notices something interesting going on in the language of the translation, one will consistently find it is reproducing what is found in the Greek.In both these ways, this is a very trustworthy text--the reader can confidently presume to be experiencing Plato's writing.The dialogue itself--Plato's _Phaedo_--has few parallels for philosophical, literary and cultural depth and importance.It is the conversation Socrates has on the day of his death with a number of philosophical admirers.It is a rich discussion of the nature of knowledge, the nature of virtue, the ultimate nature of reality and especially the nature of death itself.The introduction by the translators is also uncommonly good for putting the reader in a position to read the text well.This is the only translation of the _Phaedo_ that I will assign to my classes.This translation is a fantastic accomplishment.

Translation
Ms. Evan Brann is one of the finest translators of Greek in the country.Using the system laid out by Jacob Kline, Ms. Brann has perfected the ideal of literal translation.She stays with the Greek and allows the reader to decide just what Plato said without getting in the way.The glossaries are particularly useful to those with even a rudimentary knowlege of the language of the Greeks.Do not allow a translator or editor to stand between you and the text: choose Brann.

The true Philosopher is always seeking to free the soul from the body
_If it was up to me to preserve just one of the dialogues of Plato for posterity it would be the Phaedo. That is because this is the metaphysical core of the teachings of Socrates (the main character) as told by Plato. As is emphasized in the text, death is the main topic of concern for the true philosopher- and that is what is covered here. However, there is nothing morbid about it. This is a message of hope, for Socrates establishes the divinity and immortality of the soul. The good man, he who has purified himself through the love of wisdom (Philosophy) goes to a higher, purer realm to be with like-minded souls and the gods themselves. The bad man also goes to his just reward with those of like character.

_If I was to abstract the core truth here it would be that the true philosopher is always trying to free his soul from the body- for only then is the soul free of the distractions and distortions that can corrupt it and keep it from direct perception of the Ideals (Absolute Truth, Good, Beauty, and Justice.)

_You easily see where the Church borrowed so much of its basic theological underpinnings. In fact, reading this work abolishes forever in your mind the idea that the pre-Christian pagans were in anyway necessarily savage or barbaric in their deepest spiritual beliefs. This is spirituality more pure than anything preached by the Church- and it is supported by reasoned argument and not appeal to empty faith and authority.

_The closing of the dialog is probably the finest depiction in Western literature of the death of a great and good man. You truly concur that Socrates was indeed "the wisest and justest and best of all men."

The true Philosopher is always seeking to free the soul from the body
_If it was up to me to preserve just one of the dialogues of Plato for posterity it would be the Phaedo. That is because this is the metaphysical core of the teachings of Socrates (the main character) as told by Plato. As is emphasized in the text, death is the main topic of concern for the true philosopher- and that is what is covered here. However, there is nothing morbid about it. This is a message of hope, for Socrates establishes the divinity and immortality of the soul. The good man, he who has purified himself through the love of wisdom (Philosophy) goes to a higher, purer realm to be with like-minded souls and the gods themselves. The bad man also goes to his just reward with those of like character.

_If I was to abstract the core truth here it would be that the true philosopher is always trying to free his soul from the body- for only then is the soul free of the distractions and distortions that can corrupt it and keep it from direct perception of the Ideals (Absolute Truth, Good, Beauty, and Justice.)

_You easily see where the Church borrowed so much of its basic theological underpinnings. In fact, reading this work abolishes forever in your mind the idea that the pre-Christian pagans were in anyway necessarily savage or barbaric in their deepest spiritual beliefs. This is spirituality more pure than anything preached by the Church- and it is supported by reasoned argument and not appeal to empty faith and authority.

_The closing of the dialog is probably the finest depiction in Western literature of the death of a great and good man. You truly concur that Socrates was indeed the wisest and justest and best of all men. ... Read more

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Authoritative and idiomatic, this translation has already established an impressive foothold in the college market. ... Read more

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Response to Ego
Mr Neulander,
It's sweet that you have read books.
To review this book you should probably READ this book, the one you are supposedly reviewing as opposed to expounding your wonderfulness into the ether.
Self abuse should be kept private. ... Read more

Product Description
The authors of this book consult fifteen thinkers, from various fields, who have a profound understanding of the important role that education plays in our world. Each chapter opens with an Introduction and concludes with a discussion and questions. Contents: Introduction; "Plato", Plato's Cave: On Breaking the Chains of Ignorance; "Confucius", Confucius, The Master Teacher; "John Locke", Locke On Developing Good Habits; "Jean Jacques Rousseau", Rousseau On Keeping Education Natural; "Johann Frederich Herbart", Herbart On the Education of Moral Character; "Horace Mann", Mann's Purposes of Education; "William James", James On the Laws of Habit; "Booker T. Washington", Washington On Achieving Social Equality; "John Dewey", Dewey On Society and Education; "Maria Montessori", Montessori: My System of Education; "Carl Rogers", Rogers On Becoming a Person; "B.F. Skinner", Skinner On Contingency Management in the Classroom; "Shinichi Suzuki", Suzuki On the Intellectual Development of the Child; Conclusion; Bibliography. ... Read more

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Good, Short and Sweet!
I bought this book for my class and it was awesome. It had concise, helpful information on many educational theorists. For the most part it was easy reading and it really helped in my presentations. If you need concise information on educational theorist this is the book for you. If you need deep, highly detailed background on the lives of the theorist, this would probably be of help, but not the all and be all. ... Read more

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These new translations of the Defence of Socrates, the Euthyphro, and the Crito present Plato's remarkable dramatizations of the momentous events surrounding the trial of Socrates in 399 BC, on charges of irreligion and corrupting the young. They form a dramatic and thematic sequence, raising fundamental questions about the basis of moral, religious, legal, and political obligation. The Introduction provides a stimulating philosophical and historical analysis of these texts, complemented by useful explanatory notes and an index of names. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (2)

perfect condition...fast shipping....very happy!!
A most excellent resource for anyone interested in not only studying rhetoric, but seeing shining examples!

Good for beginners.
For teachers looking for something between a comprehensive collection of the dialogues and a photocopied hand-out, this little edition nicely fits the bill.It's an extremely user-friendly translation with a generous introduction and copious but clear and concise endnotes.The editor admittedly errors on the side of verbosity in the introduction, going to excessive (not to mention gratuitous) lengths to argue that the "Crito" is not inconsistent with the "Apology."Also, rather than substituting "defense" for "apology" and " goodness" for "virtue," he might have accomplished the goal of a clear and accessible edition by giving the reader a bit more credit.Finally, many instructors and readers would understandably be forgiven if they shunned this edition because of its omission of the "Phaedo," the final chapter in the trial, sentencing, and punishment of Socrates. ... Read more

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Essential Keys to Plato
You'd think that after 24 centuries there might not be a whole lot of new things to say about Plato, but Zuckert makes startling discoveries about the Platonic corpus that everyone else seems to have overlooked. The first bombshell is that chronologically (in terms of when it was supposed to take place) Laws is the very first dialogue, not the last as many scholars have assumed. Since there's no mention of the Peloponnesian War, it must take place before 431, and in fact a close look shows that the Athenian Stranger's views are all rooted in pre-Socratic philosophy. Zuckert's clear, detailed, well substantiated argument about Laws got me hooked, and I ended up reading the entire 862 pages with interest and enjoyment--at the same time going over many of Plato's dialogues again.

Having read several essays on Plato by Leo Strauss, Zuckert's teacher, and his other followers, I was familiar with the idea that the argument of each dialogue emerges in tandem with the unfolding of the action, as well as the idea that the narrative structure (narrated by Socrates, told by a third person, not narrated, etc.) is related to the theme. Zuckert's approach, encompassing as it does the entire corpus, also makes clear the significance of the dramatic dates. For example, when we see that Lysis takes place years after Symposium and Phaedrus, we find that it "contains a critique of both the definitions of love presented in the two earlier dialogues" (p. 511). So what has sometimes been pigeonholed as a "minor" dialogue comes alive in the discussion of an important topic.

By looking at the dialogues in sequence we get a better sense of who Socrates is and how his thought developed (according to Plato, of course): the stripling struggling with Parmenides; the brash young man taking Protagoras down a couple notches with his hard questions; the confident thinker expounding a positive teaching in Symposium and Republic; the father figure seeking to benefit Theages and Meno; and finally the wise man facing his biological and intellectual limits in the dialogues around the time of the trial. The dialogues featuring Timaeus and the Eleatic philosopher offer contrasts that help us understand more deeply what Socrates is all about.

Although Zuckert follows in the footsteps of Strauss, who wrote that each of Plato's dialogues had to be understood in the context of the whole, she has a good grasp of the full gamut of research literature on Plato, not just Straussian, and a fine bibliography. Also unlike Strauss, she states what she thinks very clearly, and, moreover, in prose generally free of technical and academic terms. She is the worthy student of a great teacher, and this work marks an important new beginning in Platonic studies.

A paradigm shift in Plato studies
Prof. Zuckert offers in this amazing piece of scholarship a full review of Plato's Dialogues, from the perspective of their literary setting. The author's hermeneutical commitment is clear: A single dialogue can only be interpreted against the background of the complete set of Plato's Dialogues. And the entire collection of Plato's Dialogues cannot be understood based on compositional criteria, according to which there would be juvenile, transitional, mature, critical and old-age dialogues. Instead Zuckert follows the trend established by authors like Jacob Howland and Drew A. Hyland that reads the Dialogues in the dramatological order derived from their literary contents. However, Zuckert goes farther than previous scholars and proposes a comprehensive reading of the whole corpus. This reading makes manifest the originating motives of Socrates' engagement with philosophy, how it developed itself through successive stages, and what limits had eventually to confront. The table of contents can offer a glimpse of the wide scope and deep scholarship of this book.

Introduction: Platonic dramatology (1)

Part I: The political and philosophical problems (49)

1. Using Pre-Socratic philosophy to support political reform. The Athenian Stranger (51)

2. Plato's Parmenides: Parmenides' critique of Socrates and Plato's critique of Parmenides (147)

3. Becoming Socrates (180)

4. Socrates interrogates his contemporaries about the noble and good (215)

Part II: Two paradigms of philosophy (279)

5. Socrates' positive teaching (281)

6. Timaeus-Critias: Completing or challenging Socratic political philosophy? (420)

7. Socratic practice (482)

Conclusion to Part II: What the contrast with Timaeus tells us about Socrates (586)

Part III: The trial and death of Socrates (593)

8. The limits of human intelligence (595)

9. The Eleatic challenge (680)

10. The trial and death of Socrates (736)

Conclusion: Why Plato made Socrates his hero (815)

Bibliography (863)

Index (881)
... Read more

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This comprehensive, yet compact, introduction examines Plato's understanding of law, justice, virtue, and the connection between politics and philosophy.

Focusing on three of Plato's dialogues -- The Laws, The Republic, and The Statesman -- Mark Blitz lays out the philosopher's principal interests in government and the strength and limit of the law, the connection between law and piety, the importance of founding, and the status and limits of political knowledge. He examines all of Plato's discussions of politics and virtues, comments on specific dialogues, and discusses the philosopher's explorations of beauty, pleasure, good, and the relations between politics and reason. Throughout, Blitz reinforces Plato's emphasis on clear and rigorous reasoning in ethics and political life and explains in straightforward language the valuable lessons one can draw from examining Plato's writings.

The only introduction to Plato that both gathers his separate discussions of politically relevant topics and pays close attention to the context and structure of his dialogues, this volume directly contrasts the modern view of politics with that of the ancient master. It is an excellent companion to Plato's Dialogues.

Product Description
Timothy ChappellÂ’s new translation of the Theaetetus is presented here in short sections of text, each preceded by a summary of the argument and followed by his philosophical commentary on it. Introductory remarks discuss Plato and his works, his use of dialogue, the structure of the Theaetetus, and alternative interpretations of the work as a whole. A glossary and bibliography are provided. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

Insightful analysis
I am not a Plato scholar (at least not yet) so I bought this book hoping it would provide me with a detailed explanation of one of my favorite Platonic dialogues, the Theaetetus.After reading and re-reading this book I have to say it provided what I expected and then some.I would recommend this book to anyone who has read the Theaetetus and is looking for a scholarly examination of that dialogue -- but don't expect an easy read.Chappell's discussion is complex in its own right and requires careful study.Anyone who gets to the point where they want to read this kind of book should expect it to be complex.Chappell does afford guides within the text to assist more casual readers to navigate more easily through it.I do feel as though I have a much more insightful understanding of the Theaetetus and can more easily discuss and debate the main issues of the dialogue in my philosophy classes.I assume that is what motivated him to write it in the first place and so, therefore, it is successful in its intent. ... Read more

Product Description
A new translation in the Focus Philosophical Library series, with notes and introduction material, glossary and apppendix. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (6)

Appendices alone are worth the money
In addition to a serviceable translation of Plato's Timaeus, this edition also contains a series of appendices concerning the musical, astronomical, and geometrical background to the dialogue. Much of the cosmology in the dialogue deals with perplexing numerical ratios and descriptions of geometrical solids constructed from various plane figures. The appendices provide short yet detailed explanations of the mathematical and other problems involved. If it is not already clear that the 9:8, 5:4, and other ratios explain Pythagorean problems in tuning string instruments, or if you just can't quite visualize or construct the various solids built of the different kinds of triangles, then buy this book for the appendices. It's worth it.

Plato's Cosmogony Adorned with the Beauty of Rhetoric
In Plato's Timaeus the reader will encounter the divine philosopher's cosmogony, dealing with the creation of the universe and the formation of the human species.Timaeus of Locri, the Pythagorean, takes the lead role in the dialogue.It may be declared that the Timaeus is a philosophical discourse that ascends to a level of intellectual sublimity and aesthetic beauty that has seldom been attained in the pages of western philosophy; and its impact was such that it inspired a whole line of platonic-minded men throughout antiquity, the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.Even today, the Timaeus has not lost its philosophical appeal.Now the basic elements of Timaeus' dissertation deal with the creation of the universe, the immortal gods, mortal man, animate, and inanimate entities: and out of this immerges Plato's famed Theory of Forms, his conception of the Demiurge and World Soul, along with implications pointing to the doctrines of Anamnesis and the Transmigration of Souls.Overall the Timaeus, like the Republic, is required reading for students of Plato and those interested in the western philosophical tradtion.

Plato's Timaeus by Peter Kalkavage
Plato's Timaeus by Peter Kalkavage includes the Kalkavage translation of the Dialogue and two supporting sections, the introduction and the glossary, that are integral to the richness of the book. The Dialogue portion is beautifully translated and very readable. The introduction provides a fascinating treatise for the person wanting to understand the Timaeus as well as how Platonic dialogues generally might be approached. The glossary is not simply a list of terms and definitions, but offers an explanation of the concepts embedded in the language of the Dialogue. Peter Kalkavage's Timaeus is not just for scholars. It offers insight for all those interested in Greek philosophy, Platonic dialogues and in particular, Plato's view of the creation of the cosmos and man's place within it.

Immensely useful
The Timaeus is doubtless one of the most difficult of Plato's dialogues for modern student to unravel, in part because of the vital role played by mathematics in Timaeus' narrative. Kalkavage's appendices provide clear introductions to these aspects of the argument, which supersede Cornford on some points. The translation is very literal, and if that's your thing, quite impeccable. Kalkavage in his Introduction expresses intellectual debts to Jacob Klein, Richard Kennington, and Stanley Rosen; this is a most interesting pedigree, especially as one assumes that the absence of the obvious "fourth" must be intentional.

I should remark, in reference to the review below, that the Timaeus presupposes some familiarity with Plato's philosophy; those just embarking on this study would be best advised to begin with the Alcibiades or the Meno.

Am I on dope or what??
This is presented in dialogue style with an introduction by the
author.Both were a waste of time, at least for me, so that
if you intended to transmit some sort of knowledge or learning
it certainly was not done by this book.

Just from looking at it, I was sure it would have some piece
of meat that would make my life easier, but alas, I became
bogged down trying to determine what was being said, was it true,
or was someone pulling my leg.If this is the source of the
story of Atlantis, I sure would not be looking for that place
based upon this writing.

I did not like it, mainly because it did not transmit any
type of knowledge or learning for me.Maybe I'm stupid, but then
...well.....maybe. ... Read more

Product Description
Presents a new translation of Plato's celebrated account of a political utopia, which remains one of the most compelling and influential works in the history of philosophy. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

Reason allows us to live for something
I read Terence Irwin's translation of Plato's Republic for a graduate philosophy class.I paid close attention to Plato's thesis of courage in his Republic, which I expound below.I found Irwin's translation to be one of the best of several I read.

Plato's project in the Republic is to form the "perfect" society."Reason allows us to live for something."Through reason we set goals and organize our lives around achieving goals.Plato argues that the government's duty to citizens is to provide justice, and educate citizens both men and women.The state's social structure stood for justice and was divided into three groups.Rulers- those trained to use reason and posses wisdom.Guardians/ Soldiers have courage/spirit.Artisans have moderation of appetites.Plato's ideal ruler, the "Philosopher King," should be 50 years old with 15 years of government experience and should have studied science and philosophy.The ruler must show a mastery of Arete = excellence vs. akrasia= weakening of will, or no self-control.The ruler should think logically not emotionally.In the Republic to insure excellent people Plato advocated selective breeding of excellent unmarried people who lived in communes, who did not own property.

Plato describes five types of government in the Republic:

1. Aristocracy- Plato considered this the best form of government; aristocracy embodies wisdom of the philosopher king.
2. Timocracy- military government embodies virtues of honor and courage.
3. Oligarchy- rule by a rich elite, their vice is greed, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
4. Democracy- mob rule, and chaos, it represents akrasia people are slaves of their desires and have little self-control.
5. Tyranny- this is the worst form of government.The vice is selfishness, one power crazed person in control.

Plato's purpose in the Republic is not to perfect the character of people as an end but only as a means to an end.Plato's aim has a definite effect on his definition of courage.I find this is especially the case when exploring his ideas on how to educate the Guardians of the city to act courageously.Plato's goal is to match a person's character disposition to a job they are naturally inclined to perform in the city.Once he [Plato] has introduced the city in 369 b-d, he immediately advances the thesis, which is to dominate the rest of the Republic, that the needs of its inhabitants can best be met if each person in it performs that single task, and that single task alone, for which he is naturally suited.

With this view of human nature in mind, in Plato's model society, he divides the citizens into three classes.Rulers from whom the "philosopher king," will be selected, Guardians who are soldiers to protect the state, and the rest of the citizens classified as ArtisansThis division of citizens precipitates a discussion by Plato on the four virtues that these citizens will bring to the state.In the history of philosophy this becomes known as the "four cardinal virtues"; wisdom, courage, moderation, and justice.With this introduction of courage as a virtue, Plato takes another crack at defining courage.What is also important to observe is that he introduces a new element, that of education, in his definition of courage that was absent from his early dialogue Laches.

Plato espouses the idea in the Republic that the Guardians need to possess certain natural qualities; such as strength, speed, and courage.It seems odd that Plato classifies courage as a natural quality possessed by certain people.This automatically presupposes that not all people can practice the virtue of courage.Plato's successor Aristotle, will argue against this notion in his EN.In addition, Plato argues that in order for people to be courageous they must also have an aggressive thumos [passion], which makes both people and animals fearless and determined.Plato fears that the Guardians could be susceptible to using their passion of aggressiveness against there own people.Therefore, he counsels that the Guardians who naturally possess aggressiveness have to also naturally possess the opposite characteristic of gentleness as well, so that their aggressiveness will only be used against the enemy and not their own citizenry.

This dialogue is significant in that it helps to flesh out Plato's notion of what ultimately makes a person courageous.First, Plato argues that the goal of education, which he compares to a sheepdog, is to watch over the Guardians; thus, with the proper education he believes the proper balance between exciting their aggressiveness and subduing it in the Guardians can be achieved.Second, Plato believes that if aggressiveness is properly excited by physical training, then the Guardian will be courageous.If overly excited they will be like a wild beast devoid of grace and will become ignorant.Finally, Plato argues in his education section of the Republic, that to counter the possibility of a Guardian developing an over excited passion of aggressiveness, it is necessary to teach the Guardians literature and music during the same time they undergo physical training.

Thus, Plato hopes this balanced approach to educating the Guardians will then lead to courage being a controlled and calm act of endurance in battle, instead of a foolhardy lust for blood letting and an emotional reaction to war.Not only does Plato spend a significant amount of time advocating for the tools necessary to subdue the passions of the Guardians in book three of the Republic, but another important point in Plato's philosophy to consider is that since he believes that a Guardian's aggressiveness is influenced by literature he is very concerned by what type of literature is taught to them as well.Plato is very concerned that the archetypical heroic warrior Achilles, as depicted in Homer's epic poem the Iliad along with those depicted in Greek tragedies performed on stage, are bad examples for the Guardians to emulate.Consequently, Plato advises that heroes of Greek literature should be depicted as thoughtfully courageous and in control of their anger and physically resilient warriors.Thus, Plato seems to be using the term andreia [courage] to cover (at the least) both courage proper, which can only exist in some kind of unity with the other virtues, and raw mettle or aggressiveness, which can exist in conjunction with various vices.Plato in book four of the Republic does move on from his study of thumos as the prime motivating force to act courageously, to actually defining the virtue of courage.Plato defines courage as a person's ability to subdue their aggressiveness by the orders of their reason in regards to what they should be fearful of regardless of their own feelings of pain or pleasure.Plato's expounded definition of the virtue of courage is that a courageous act is an amalgamation of a person's natural passion of aggressiveness and properly educated rational beliefs over what is worthy regarding the possibility of losing their life or limb over.

It will profoundly affect you
I find that Plato's Republic is not something you read but rather something you study.I read the book decades ago and over the years I keep coming back to it, particularly whenever I hear a lecture on Plato from a professor of philosophy and as you learn, you uncover more and more meaning to the work.

Overall, the book is foundational to Western Philosophy and I think it needs to be required reading for everyong shooting for a bachelor's degree.If you've finished college and you haven't had at least an introduction to Plato, you've been cheated and in that case I recommend you go back and get the book and read it.

Overall, the book is about Socrates sitting by the ocean on some Greek Island with some friends discussing how they'd build a perfect society and republic.They wind up throwing concepts around back and forth and as they do you get introduced to rhetoric, republican government, guardians, and all kinds of concepts like that which are pivotal to republics throughout the world.There are several key metaphors that come from Plato's Republic like the parable of the cave and the ship of state which serve to illustrate some challenges that Republics face.

In my experience, Plato's republic is monumental, especially given that it was written 2,500 years ago and since it forms one of the most solid foundations for Western Governments.

Depending on whether you're studying Philosophy or Government, your study of Plato's Republic might lead you in different directions.I found myself going down both the government and philosophy roads.From a government standpoint, I then went to some of the French philosophers like Richlieau, Rousseau, and Tocoqueville, and Italians like Machiavelli, and then to Locke and Hobbs and onto the Federalist Papers etc.From a philosophy standpoint I went down a more winding path of philosophers to Emerson, Thoreau, and then I found Derrida - definitely recommend Derrida (got to hand it to ourfriends the French on that one).My learning is not perfect and I still have a long way to go but I find that Plato sits at the foundation (is it perfect, no, but WOW it gets you thinking)

All in all Plato is must read if you care about the government we live in.This edition is a great one to put on a shelf. It is quite sturdy, I've given a couple of these away, and I recommend it as something to fill a shelf.I do own several editions, this one is overally good and readable.

If you're thinking about going down this path of reading the Greeks, I msut warn you that if you take your endeavor seriously, it will change your life.I also highly recommend a class on Plato or at least some lectures on Plato from a professional to help prime the pump.Once you get started though - it will profoundly affect you.

The Guide for Every Statesman
Plato's Republic is often quoted as one of the finest examples of philosophical thought of the western world. Written through the eyes of Socrates, Plato takes the reader into a world were debates are raged over such topics as justice, war, marriage, and the way a state should be ran. Plato holds accountable all theories presented, and each discussion is abundant with the Socratic way of teaching ... the best way to argue. It's a phenomenal book, a great read, and a great way to help one answer life's little mysteries in your own way. This book instills in its reader a sense of personal responsibility for his/her thoughts and philosophies, and gives him/her a new tool to aid him/her in discovering the true answers. If you're looking for a career in politics, the military, law, history, or just love to learn new ways, then Plato's Republic is the best thing since Coke. Just watch out the syntax and take it slow. ... Read more

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Plato remains, to this day, one of the most brilliant writers of philosophy and literature! ... Read more

Product Description
A compilation of the essential works of Plato in  one paperback volume: The Republic, The  Symposium, Parmenides, Euthyphro, Apology,  Crito, and Phaedo. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (2)

The Bible
Here is an essential compilation of works from the philosopher Emerson hailed as the "Euclid of holiness".Along with the full 'Death of Socrates' tetralogy (including the "Euthyphro", whose argument on the nature of piety gets to the heart of why Christianity is not, as Nietzsche suggests, 'Platonism for the masses') this Doubleday edition also includes the esoteric late-phase "Parmenides" and of course the "Symposium" and "Republic", all in Jowett's long-standard translations.Reading the "Republic" in full, one can savor the loftiness of Plato's vision of human nobility, a merging of aesthetic and ethical criteria which still accounts, more than anything else, for our conception of the transcendent quality of ancient Athens(again, contra Nietzsche and "The Birth of Tragedy").While the communitarian (and perhaps totalitarian) aspects of Plato's political vision may or may not be ironic, the deepest wellspring of Plato's utopia can best be found in the formula"beautiful minds in beautiful bodies" which he has bequeathed to us as a supreme ideal in love and education.Throughout, it is Plato's obsessive consideration of ethical ideals-- and the rationalist metaphysics in which he grounds ethical imperatives-- that galvanizes the reader to ponder the reconstruction of self and society in the light of higher truths.And his (deliberately undwelt-upon, if we can accept Letter VII) hints of the mystical, which have haunted the Western imagination ever since, make Platonism perhaps the most essential, most truly global, spiritual tradition in history.It is one which encompasses the sensual as well as the intellectual, the worldly and the other-worldly, and it accepts and encourages the freeplay of skepticism; as one can see in reading these works, Plato is usually his own best critic.

A Somewhat Flawed Edition
I feel that the Jowett translation is superior to others (especially for students) because of its easy-reading quality. As anyone who has read the Platonic dialogues is sure to know, they are often somewhat dry, with keypoints strewn amongst seemingly endless dialogues. This makes the fact thatthe Jowett translation is written in layman's terms that much moreappreciated. For this, the translation earns its three stars. Otherwise, ithas a horrific layout, with no numbering for reference to lines (making ithard to use for writing papers and difficult for reference in a class thatuses a different translation because the page numbers most likely will notcoincide). Besides this, there is no reference at the top of each page todenote who the speakers are, which is often helpful because it is easy toforget who is speaking due to the work's length and number of characters.The Bloom edition has these notes but I would not recommend this eitherbecause it is a more difficult read and has a commentary essay includedthat is half the length of the Republic itself. So, unless you don't mindthe extra bulk when it comes to carrying it around, don't take the mentionof the Bloom edition as a recommendation. ... Read more