Product Description
General Books publication date: 2009Original publication date: 1915Original Publisher: Baylor University pressSubjects: ReptilesAmphibiansJuvenile Nonfiction / Animals / Reptiles ... Read more

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An excellent pocket-size reference and field identification aid describing the 237 species of reptiles and amphibians found in East Africa. 271 full-color photographs, and distribution maps. ... Read more

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This guide describes 244 species plus 260 subspecies, includingthe key features needed to identify them. The 600 illustrations show details of anatomy, reproduction, scale arrangement, and life stages. Full range information is given in 200 maps. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (3)

great field guide
This is a true field guide; it is small and sturdy enough to actually carry in the field. It's information is geared towards field work (where to find, when to find, certain critters, etc.). The species are well described, and ranges and descriptions for subspecies are present under the species accounts (far better than Audobon's field guide). Furthermore, the range descriptions are truly precise; it will detail the overall countours of the animals range and then the areas where the animal is not found. This makes it much easier to determine if a given animal is found in an area.

Also, the plates are far superior to most photo's. The allow for a more clear view of thier subject, and highlight important identification characteristics. They are also done to scale (although scale used varies somewhat from page to page--it is listed on each page), which makes it easier to get an idea of size of the animal.

This edition is somewhat old; '98 or so. I understand the book's been updated somewhat since then due changes in our knowledge and the taxonomy of the animals, but even this edition is still very functional in the field, or for a general reference.

The Very Best!
If you were to only buy one book on reptiles and amphibians, this would be the one. No other author can come close to Rober C. Stebbins in this area. Not only is his writing, informative, easily understood, highly intersting and always engaging, but he also does his own drawings, from live specimens, and his artwork is quite incredible! I suggest that any parent of school age children consider buying this book as a present for his or her own kids. Young boys in particular are quickly attracted to this kind of work and a book like this will serve as a real foundation for years of study and enjoyment. Teachers too will often find that boys who dislike school and "reading" in general, will just love this book. Anything spent on this book is money well spent.

One Of The Crown Jewels Of The Peterson Field Guide Series
Written by the leading expert in his field, this is the best book on the subject.I remember when I was in college that Professor Stebbins' class was always impossible to get into because he was so popular and respected. This book is his legacy... a highly detailed book with hundreds ofbeautifully rendered drawings.Each drawing is meticulous and a greatlearning tool.This volume is one of the best of the Peterson Field GuideSeries and is highly recommended for all readers, even if they neverventure outside. ... Read more

Product Description
Packed with tips to care for your special critter

Choose the right lizard, turtle, or snake – and give your pet the best care

Fanatical about frogs? Gaga over geckos? This essential guide tells you what you must know before you own a reptile or amphibian, with authoritative advice on everything from proper caging and feeding to health care, socializing, transporting, and more.You’ll find out about the different species, normal and abnormal behavior, the basics of breeding, and complying with laws.

The Dummies Way

• Explanations in plain English
• "Get in, get out" information
• Icons and other navigational aids
• Tear-out cheat sheet
• Top ten lists
• A dash of humor and fun

Customer Reviews (7)

this is great
this book really filled in the blanks for me in understanding the necessity's of these animals as pets. i am now moving forward to putting together an 80 gallon terrarium and feel very confident i can pull it off by applying the data in this book.

Good if you can filter out the good from the bad information
Some of this book I feel like is just the author guessing at what might be true, it seems disorganized because it covers so many species. If you plan on getting a reptile or amphibian, get a more specific book that is correct 100% of the time, and if you are unsure of the type you want then get a hold of some Reptiles Magazine copies or something that can help you chose. I would not recommend this book for beginners or more experienced keepers.

Greatest Handbook on Reptiles etc..
I call this my bible for going to reptile expos or for making a reptile purchase. I got this book over 5 years ago when I started in the reptile/herping world and this purchase was my second buying. Horrible mistake loaning my first one out but I cant live without this book. No matter how many times I have used it I still refer to it for quick updates, anything I am unsure about. Its the easiest read and the greatest help for making decissions for reptiles, invertabrates and Amphibianns. A must have.

animals
Make sure you have this if you have many different reptiles to care for. It has lots of great info.

Good general guide for pet herps
This book does quite a good job at covering a lot of great information about herps (turtles, tortoises, snakes, lizards, frogs, toads, newts, salamanders, caecilians, and even the non-pet herps crocodilians, amphisbaenians, and Rhynchocephalia) and things that ever herper needs to know to have a happy healthy pet.Topics include keeping your herps in an outdoor cage, tank, or pool, what kinds of plants to put inside of an indoor terrarium, who eats what (or, more likely, who eats whom), breeding, how to determine a herp's sex, zoos with great herp collections, how to get involved in one's local community, common health problems, how to transport one's herps, and what to do if you need to get rid of your herp.In the middle of the book is a section of nice color photos of some of the more popular varieties of pet herps, such as the painted turtle, corn snake, water dragon, veiled chameleon, horned frog, and fire-bellied newt.It finishes with an appendix running down the basics (diet, behavior, origins, etc.) of some of the more popular herps, such as the kingsnake, Greek tortoise, fire salamander, leopard gecko, bumblebee poison dart frog, and aquatic caecilian.The only shortcomings I noticed in the book were that there isn't a huge amount of species-specific information (though this book is only meant as a general guide, not something covering every single thing about all of the herps in the pet market; that's what species-specific books are for!) and that it recommended the pet store as the place to get frozen/thawed prekilled rodents for one's snake.It would have been better had they talked about some of the businesses who breed rodents and then euthanise them before freezing them and selling them in bulk, such as RodentPro, Mice on Ice, and Mice Direct.Unless I knew that a pet store had gotten their prekilled prey from such a reputable company, I wouldn't exactly trust their prekilled rodents, given how a lot of pet stores aren't known for top-notch treatment of their animals!It also would've been nice had they mentioned some of the companies that breed and sell insects for lizards and amphibians, like Cricket Ranch and Timberline Live Pet Foods.But overall, this is a really good guide to get the first-time herper started, and as one reads more literature on the subject and interacts with fellow herpers, one will learn about the things that this book overlooked or didn't go into a lot of detail about. ... Read more

Product Description
There is more to Bali than beaches and traditional dances.Perched between the tropical rainforests of southeast Asia and the dry archipelago of eastern Indonesia, Bali has a diverse and prolific array of wildlife, including reptiles and amphibians.This beautifully presented, comprehensive guide has color photographs of every species, up-to-date information, keys to identification (in English and Bahasa Indonesia), and easy- to-use language throughout.It is designed for those with an interest in spectacular and elegant wildlife as much as those with a serious interest in herpetology. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (2)

Coffee Table Book or Fied Guide?
That was the question which immediately crossed my mind as I unpacked this book: It is very large in format, yet very thin - and still a colorful hardcover. It is definitely not something you will carry around on the field, looking more like your typical coffee table or kiddies' book!
Oh well, let's see the contents.

On the plus side, there is finally yet another guide to the herpetofauna of a part of the exotic Indonesian archipelago - even if just to a very small (if famous and popular) island of it. And it is a guide that is comprehensive, not only covering all species of reptiles and amphibians known to occur on the island, but also those that MAY occur there.
Most species are illustrated on colour photos (though not always of Balinese specimens) and there is basic info on their apparence, habitat, biology and distribution in both Bali and the wider region.
The keys, provided in both English and Indonesian also seem useable.
There is also a basic general introduction to Bali's herpetofauna and habitats, plus a few general topics like treatment of snake bites and local trade in turtles.

Now for the shortcomings: all of the info in here IS basic. For example there is no mentioning of subspecies in the book, not even noting which subspecies of wide-ranging, variable species occurs in Bali. The locality records, provided only for the illustrated specimens, are also of dubious usefulness. While some are merely misspellt but still recognizable, others are completely puzzling, like "East Kalimantan National Park" - East Kalimantan is in fact a vast province in Borneo, not a national park!
Nor does the book give you any hints on where all the data came from...
These kind of things left me wondering how much the accuracy of the book can be trusted in general.

Anyway, with so little available in the way of guides to Indonesian herpetofauna, this book is still a welcome addition to the list.
Just know how much (or little) to expect from it.

A guide written especially for zoologists, herpetologists, and other professionals
Illustrated with full color photographs throughout, A Field Guide To The Amphibians And Reptiles Of Bali is a guide written especially for zoologists, herpetologists, and other professionals, yet so straightforward that lay readers will find it a simple matter to identify Bali amphibian and reptile species. Beginning with a walkthrough of basic identifying features of Bali amphibians and reptiles, first aid instructions for treating snakebite, and a brief overview of Bali's environment and vegetation, A Field Guide To The Amphibians And Reptiles Of Bali proceeds into an in- depth, species-by-species accounting of Bali's frogs, turtles, lizards, and snakes. Each species listing includes a color photograph, a description, habitat and distribution information, and biology basics. Black-and-white diagrams and a condensed questionnaire for swiftly narrowing down a species member (does a lizard have limbs? does it have a gliding membrane? Does it have a row of spines down its back? etc.) further simplify this excellent, easy-to-use guide.
... Read more

Product Description
With this 'Guide to Amphibians and Reptiles', you can discover and understand the lives of common frogs, salamanders, alligators, snakes, turtles, and lizards to an extent that has never been possible, through the unique behavior-watching approach of the Stokes Nature Guides. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

exelent field guide
This is by far the most detailed and enjoyable to read feild guide to amphibians and reptiles we could find.However, it does not include as many different species as some do, but it has much more information perspecies. I wish Thomas Tyning would write more nature books. ... Read more

Product Description
Originally published in 1915.This volume from the Cornell University Library's print collections was scanned on an APT BookScan and converted to JPG 2000 format by Kirtas Technologies.All titles scanned cover to cover and pages may include marks notations and other marginalia present in the original volume. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

Excellent Text
Great book! Lots of good pictures, and much descriptive text....z ... Read more

Product Description

Customer Reviews (2)

Encyclopedia of Reptiles and Amphibians
A truly comprehensive coverage of the entire group of reptiles and amphibians - the turtles, lizards, snakes, salamanders, frogs and their allies - that any hobbyist or weekend naturalist can turn to for answers to her or his questions about both common herps and the rarely seen species.The author uses an interesting narrative style to describe the lives and characters of hundreds of species from North America and around the world.Although Breen, a herpetologist of long standing, emphasizes the more familiar species likely to be found in pet shops or collected by the average enthusiast, many obscure and rare groups are also discussed in detail.
The almost 600 photos provide a gallery such as is seldom seen in a book for the average naturalist, picturing everything from common snakes found in your back yard to seldom seen Australian lizards and Africal frogs.

Breen doesn't just tell you about reptiles and amphibians, he also tells you how to keep them successfully in captivity and get the most out of observing them in nature.Housing, maintenance, feeding and foods are discussed in detail, and there are also hints on purchasing your pet or collecting it.
If you are in the market for a single good volume covering the entire range of reptiles and amphibians, this Encyclopedia is the book for you.

This is very good
I have seen this, I like this book what I can learn about reptiles and amphibians in the world. Thanks ... Read more

Product Description
An accomplished naturalist's quest for snakes, turtles, lizards, frogs, and toads as the author travels thoughout the U.S., Mexico and Central America. He paints vivid natural history pictures with words in addition to the 40 full color illustrations oof the species and their habitats.Fascinating reading! ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

"In Search of"... a Better Book Than This
Richard Bartlett's "In Search of Reptiles and Amphibians" is a collection of stories from the field that attempts to relate the joy that herp enthusiasts (those who enjoy reptiles and amphibians) experience in their many adventures in search of these wonderful creatures, but fails to connect for several reasons.
As soon as you begin to read the book, you will notice countless errors (extra spaces between words, words missing or misspelled) that severely detract from the message the author wishes to convey.
Assuming you can trip over all the errors and still continue to read, you'll find that the author is a huge fan of adjectives.It is as if someone instructed the writer that a sentence is sub-par if it contains less than a dozen descriptive words or so.It appears as if the author were trying for Thoreau, but only achieves awkwardness.
Also, I see little more in the stories involved other than glorification of the author.The basic plot of virtually every anecdote is "I found something really interesting.Everyone look at me.You can't find them anymore, so don't even try."The stories are typically very short (2-3 pages) and in an attempt to come back to topic, a description of the species in question is presented after the ramblings.
Another thing that concerns me is that the author condemns the practice of collecting animals from the wild on several occasions throughout the book (Ch. 10, etc.), but in a subsequent chapter talks about keeping the only specimen of a species he has seen in 30 years (Ch. 11).Not very responsible (in writing or in practice), in my opinion.
If the reader is just starting an interest in reptiles and amphibians, then these stories might be of value.Anyone with more experience/knowledge in the field than a novice would do better to find something else to read.
... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

Stupendous
wonderfull! I loved the maps that showed where the herps lived and explaned in wonderful detail there climate and charachteristics. I Have studied herps for many years and have never been able to explain suchdetail. If you are studing herps this is the book the have! ... Read more

Product Description
A revised and updated paperback edition of a handbook on the care of reptiles and amphibians in captivity. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (5)

His reach exceeded his grasp, but it is still a good book
The section on montiors and tegus is REALLY insufficient.He discusses only the Nile and Water monitors, but there are some 12 or 13 species available.In fact, he tries to dissuade you from owning a monitor, whenthey are great animals if you know what your doing.The section onvenomous snakes was rather lacking, but that is the norm. Also, some ofthe information was somewhat dated, but nothing major enough to cause realconcern.HE got the diets, temps. and other basics for most of thespecies.However, the amphibian section wasn't all that great.It didn'tcover frogs now avialable, and the care was too bare, sometimes notincluding temperatures or other essentials.This book can be helpful ifyou've got no knowledge, but youre still much better off buying a morespecific book (i.e one that covers just lizards, or just snakes).Hisreach exceeded his grasp here. But, it can help, and has a few good spots. I reccomend buying it, but don't rely on it as the best care source outthere.

Pretty good
It is a must buy for beginners. It contains a shallow overview of many species. Whileit does not go into too much depth on any one species, it does give the absolute bare bones for most- cage size, temps, diet, ect.The section an montiros and teiieds is very lacking though. He seems tothink that the average hobbyist should even consider these aniamls. That isthe books one really big flaw.

Desperately seeking amphibs...
This was a great, informative book. No complaints about the information that it held.... however, I was specifically seeking information about amphibians. In view of this, I have to say I was disappointed in the smallamount of info i could find on my amphibs. I'd say it was 75-80% reptileinfo... disappointing especially when it wasn't a large book to begin with.Reptile owners: Buy this book! Amphibian owners: find an amphibian book.

A must for starters
This book is great it covers every thing for every reptile even feeding instructions.

A Must !!!
This is a completely revised and updated edition of the internationally successful and acclaimed THE CARE OF REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS IN CAPTIVITY.

Since the appearance of the first edition, it has held pride of place as the illustrated handbookforthose wishingto keep and breed a wide range of reptiles and amphibians.Designed for use by the novice and experienced hobbyist - as well as by students and practitioners of herpetology - it enables all to expand their scope of interest in the topic, from keeping a few examples to a full range of keeping and breeding.

Chris Mattison enjoys a world-wide reputation as the author of six major books on the natural history and husbandry of reptiles and amphibians.He is a member of the British and International Herpetological Societies.He has been involved in the keeping of these fascinating creatures forovertwentyyears, travellingwidely to observe and photograph in the wild and lecturing on the topic.

Front cover photograph by the author shows the Fiji Iguana (Brachycephalus fasciatus), a rare and attractive species which has been bred in captivity by several zoological gardens. ... Read more

Product Description
This is an EXACT reproduction of a book published before 1923. This IS NOT an OCR'd book with strange characters, introduced typographical errors, and jumbled words.This book may have occasional imperfections such as missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. that were either part of the original artifact, or were introduced by the scanning process. We believe this work is culturally important, and despite the imperfections, have elected to bring it back into print as part of our continuing commitment to the preservation of printed works worldwide. We appreciate your understanding of the imperfections in the preservation process, and hope you enjoy this valuable book. ... Read more

Product Description
, and Samuel Gundy. Accurate line renderings of over 70 alligators, snakes, lizards, frogs, toads, etc. Concise captions give scientific name, size, habitat, coloring, distinguishing characteristics, other data. Total of 44 black-and-white illustrations, reproduced in authentic color on covers. Copyright-free, wonderful for learning, coloring.
... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

So life-like!
This coloring book has some beautiful pictures and the life-like images are wonderful to look at.The information that's written alongside the pictures is very helpful.But the best part are the pictures-the ones that you can color as well as the coloring keys.If I didn't know any better, Iwould think that the animals depicted were actually real! ... Read more

Product Description
"Assays of assemblages of amphibians and reptiles provide important information on community structure in the tropics. These ectothermic organisms are highly responsive to slight differences in the environment and to seasonal differences, such as patterns of rainfall. Most species seem to have rather restricted home ranges; therefore, data gathered in a restricted area provide much better insight into the requirements of, and potential interactions among, the species in the assemblage."—from the Introduction

The rainforests in the southwestern part of the Amazon Basin in southeastern Peru are home to scores of amphibians and reptiles. Cusco Amazónico is a richly illustrated and comprehensive account of the lives of 151 of these species. William E. Duellman’s masterpiece of community ecology includes descriptions of the physical environment and vegetation found in this unique habitat along with syntheses of abundance, mass, feeding, reproductive guilds, and daily and seasonal patterns of activity. Identification keys in English and Spanish precede detailed and illustrated species accounts. Tadpoles of many frogs are described and illustrated.

Cusco Amazónico will become a standard reference for herpetologists, tropical biologists, biogeographers, ecologists, and conservationists and stands on its own as a portrait of an animal community in a unique bioregion. The illustrations include 236 color photographs, 121 charts and graphs, 16 maps, 42 line drawings, 2 halftones, and 56 sets of audiospectrograms and waveforms. There are 71 tables. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (1)

Pages creased
The hardcover book arrived with two pages creased down their full lengths. When I purchase a new item, I expect it to be in better condition. ... Read more

Product Description

Customer Reviews (2)

classic
This book is a classic and a must for all who are interested in the herpetological fauna of the west indies.

An essential opus for nesoherpetophiles
This book will be extremely useful for those with a serious interest in the West Indian amphibian and reptile fauna -- i. e., beyond nice pictures and easy identification, two things it does NOT have.It gives details of distribution for each of the nearly 600 species known to 1991 (a number of species have been described since), including maps with locality dots.For each species there is a also a technical description (size, scale counts, etc.), a list of subspecies, if any, published references where illustrations can be found, and notes on the natural history.The distributional information and the notes on natural history are probably the most useful aspects of this book.It would have been much more useful to have a means of identifying the species.The technical descriptions will help some, but there is no way to know, if you have a specimen in the hand and read a description that seems to fit, whether there might not be a description that is a closer fit a few pages away; and often, with similar species the descriptions will not discriminate them, anyway.Based on distributions, you may be able to eliminate some species, and arrive at a tentative identification.You will also have to have a good background knowledge of what the genera are like.So, this book is not a field guide for the novice but an excellent reference for those with deeper interests. ... Read more

Product Description
Every child has gifts and talents. Children by nature are curious and eager to learn but they need guidance to bring out these gifts and talents. Parents can do this by providing children with opportunities to learn how to think. The Gifted & Talented Workbooks will make learning fun. Children will learn deduction, critical and creative thinking, inference, scquencing, classification and a variety of other thinking skills necessary to bring forth his or her true potential. The latest title in the Gifted & Talented series. Reptiles & Amphibians explores a subject children will love! With lively illustrations and interesting facts about a variety of creatures, including the Komodo dragon, the boa constrictor and the ornate box turtle, snakes, lizards and frogs, this title features fun activities that promote critical and creative thinking. Features a 16-by-20 inch full-colour poster; Presents scientific facts in a fun yet educational format; Includes activities that are perfect for both home and school use. ... Read more

Customer Reviews (4)

Texas Amphibians & Reptiles
Book arrived in excellent condition and ahead of time.Great service.Would highly recommend the seller.

The ultimate county specific guide to Texas reptiles and amphibians
Dixon's guide is far better than the Peterson, Texas Monthly and Audubon guides when it comes to narrowing down the species/subspecies of a specific county.With many reptiles and amphibians this information alone can decide a difficult identification.Also, the bibliography section has led me to many in-depth reports and studies.If you are only interested in looking at paintings or uncharacteristic photographs of these animals, I encourage you to consult the usual field guides.However, if you are a professional or an amateur willing to put this book to work, there is no other Texas resource like it.

My only complaint is that we could sure use a 2005 update.Also, Dixon's insightful comments under the species accounts (updated in the 2000 edition)would be even better if they were more extensive.

A Ten-Foot Bibliography In a Handy Desk Reference
Dixon's book is an important research tool for professional and amateur herpetologists working with the amphibians and reptiles of Texas who need to 1) refer to a rich bibliography of about 3,500 references that is current as of April 1999 - more than half of which are new since the 1987 first edition, 2) have distribution maps for all the native Texas amphibians and reptiles based on more than 13,000 county records covering more than 110,000 localities, 3) keep current with taxonomic changes, 4) refer to identification keys, and/or 5) understand the problems facing the continued survival of these animals in the face of commercial collecting and habitat destruction.

The book is composed of four major sections - A) keys (40 pages covering salamanders, frogs and toads, amphibian larvae, turtles, lizards, and snakes), B) species accounts (115 pages), C) distribution maps (94 pages with 162 maps), and C) a bibliography (143 pages).There are also shorter sections covering an 86-term glossary, indices of common (about 425) and scientific (about 550) names, and a few (25) black and white photos.

While the book is not suitable, in my estimation, as a field guide; it is nonetheless an excellent, annotated, and comprehensive bibliographic reference for serious students of the full range of Texas amphibians and reptiles.Under each genus and species account, in addition to the comments and distribution maps, a sometimes lengthy list of bibliographic references from among the 3,500 cited in this book is shown for further look-up as desired.This is a very effective way of cross referencing, by species, a shelf of additional material that I grossly estimate to be perhaps ten feet or so wide.I suggest that the most effective use of this thorough and well-researched book is in conjunction with nicely illustrated and somewhat more self-contained guides to Texas herps such as Werler and Dixon's Texas Snakes, Conant's Field Guide to Reptiles & Amphibians of Eastern & Central North America (Peterson Field Guide Series), or Vermersch's Lizards and Turtles of South Central Texas - for any of which this book is a particularly excellent and useful companion.

As time goes on, the late-1990's content of Dixon's book will need to be updated again (the first edition of this work was released 13 years before the current edition) or it will cease to be as current and useful as it still is even today - some five years after its 2000 publication.On the other hand, even if not timely updated, this book will remain an excellent and vital snapshot in time of the literature and known distribution of the Texas herpetofauna.Anyone wishing to enhance or complete their knowledge of specific Texas herps should certainly refer to this book or consider adding this excellent, moderately priced book to their herp library depending upon how often they wish to refer to it.

As an afterword, it is interesting to note that most books - certainly those able to pass the rigors of marketing scrutiny that commercial publishers require today before a book is accepted for publication - don't need operating instructions; one just needs merely to read the book.Unfortunately, however, this book is different.Because of its rather unusual style and content, the appearance of the book is not "friendly", and at first blush it seems to contain a lot of arcane tabular data and mysterious code without adequate plain English text to "decode" it.Of course this is not the case. This tabular information and code is the meat of Dixon's book, being the wealth of the distribution data and the excellent, cross-referencedbibliographic references.One should try to visualize that with the use of this book there is a ten-foot long shelf of accompanying reference material stretched across a library table, and that this book is the codex that translates between that wealth of outstanding reference material and shorter, more user-friendly herp reference books.With this understanding, the true value of Dixon's book can be appreciated.

Just note that although the book has been in print for nearly four years as of the time of this writing, there has been only one short review of this book on Amazon.com, titled "Book Not For Amateurs", which states that "Unless you are a serious student of herpetology, do not buy this book.It does not contain photos or descriptions intended for the use of the general public, but tables and numbers that mean nothing to me. If you don't know what you are looking for, you are certainly not going to find it here. This was an expensive lesson for me to learn. I hope this prevents someone else from doing the same."

How sad to read that poor Amazon.com review: I can only hope it didn't discourage anyone who could have benefited from reading/usingDixon's fine book.Proof positive of the absolute need for this book review!
END

Book Not For Amateurs
Unless you are a serious student of herpetology, do not buy this book. It does not contain photos or descriptions intended for the use of the general public, but tables and numbers that mean nothing to me.If you don't know what you are looking for, you are certainly not going to find it here.

This was an expensive lesson for me to learn.I hope this prevents someone else from doing the same. ... Read more